Ref. M7
See here for an alphabetical list of all surnames in the Chambers pages with links to the relevant text.
The Chambers are of interest through the Turners ( Ref. M5), in that we know, from her marriage lines (6.4.1856 at St Mary Bishophill, York) that the maiden name of Mike’s maternal great-grandmother Sarah Elizabeth Turner was Chambers she being the 24 year old daughter of Thomas Chambers, a joiner.
Chambers Pears family
At the 1881 Census Sarah Elizabeth said that she was born in York but at other Censuses she was more particular, i.e. Bishopthorpe, a small village on the river Ouse just south of York where there has been a residence of the Archbishop of York for centuries. We duly found an entry for her baptism on 26.6.1832, which fitted her father’s occupation and her age at death. There were further Bishopthorpe entries showing Thomas Chambers as a joiner and wheelwright having at least four children baptised there.
When Sarah’s younger brother Thomas was born in May 1839 his birth certificate yielded the vital information that his mother’s maiden name was Mary Pears. See Ref. M8 for the Pears family who came from Huby in the parish of Sutton-on-the Forest, eight miles north of York. That is where Thomas Chambers and Mary Pears got married 28.2.1825. The bride was said to be resident in the parish but Thomas Chambers was living at Acaster Malbis. This is another village on the Ouse, five miles south of York, i.e. a little further from York than Bishopthorpe, where, evidently, Thomas and Mary Chambers settled quite soon, being already there when their eldest child was baptised at Acaster. There were then four baptisms recorded at Bishopthorpe. Details of the family are given in Appendix 1 hereto.
The 1841 Census for the family at Bishopthorpe had a revelation for us: an older child, i.e. Philip Chambers, aged 18, so born a year or two before the Chambers-Pears marriage. This uncovered a rather tragic story, i.e. a marriage at Knaresborough 18.11.1822 between Thomas Chambers of Hampsthwaite, a village on the Nidd, near Harrogate, and Mary Clarke of Knaresborough, whose background is not known. Less than two months later there were two ceremonies at Hampsthwaite Church on the same day (3.1.1823), namely the burial of Mary Chambers of Hampsthwaite, and the baptism of Philip, son of Thomas and Mary Chambers, he being a carpenter,. Evidently a death in childbirth or post partum. It was just over two years later that Thomas married again, over at Sutton-in-the-Forest, as above. In writing this, it crossed our minds to ask how Thomas Chambers chose Sutton on the Forest as a place to find a second wife. Today a car journey from Hampsthwaite would be over 30 miles, via the York ring road. The more we pondered this the more it seemed significant and it led us to find Chambers people over there. We believe we have the answer, as will be explained later. Philip Chambers has not been seen after the1841 Census, when he was aged 18. We shall also very much return to Hampsthwaite as the story proeeds.
In 1851 Thomas and Mary Chambers were still at Bishopthorpe, except for the two eldest children Philip and Mary Ann who was away in service as a nursemaid. Mary Chambers (nee Pears) died there 15.6.1852 of heart disease, aged 57. Sarah Elizabeth was then not yet 20. By 1861 each of the children had left home and we could find no Chambers at Bishopthorpe, so it seems that the widower Thomas had by then also moved away. As yet, we have not found him anywhere on the 1861 Census. (He was not with any of the three younger children – Robert, Sarah & Thomas and we know nothing about Philip or the elder daughter Mary Ann as regards that Census.) In 1871 and 1881 Thomas was with Sarah Elizabeth in Hull and died there 23.1.1885 of “old age”, reasonably enough, as he was said to be 92.
* * * * * *
Attempting to go further back, we have seen Thomas Chambers at Acaster Malbis in 1825, at Hampsthwaite in 1823 and who knows where in 1861, so he had a tendency to wander, let us say. In the Censuses he consistently said he was born in Otley, West Yorkshire, yet another location with no obvious connection to any of the above named locations. The ages he gave in 1851 and 1871, though not consistent, imply a birth 1791-1793. When he died his daughter Sarah said he was 92, i.e. suggesting 1792-1793. A search of Otley Registers 1752-1812 in the Yorkshire Parish Register Section Transcripts (for which we purchased a downloaded copy) turned up very few Chambers entries, giving the impression that, in general, Otley was not a place where one could expect to find Chambers families. Certainly, there was not a baptism of a Thomas Chambers around the above dates. However, there was a baptism there 31.5.1795 of Sarah Chambers, daughter of Philip Chambers, a cloth weaver of the town. Remembering that our Thomas named his first born son Philip, it seemed worthwhile to see what we could find out about this Philip Chambers.
Chambers Whaley family
A search for West Riding baptisms produced a list of eleven children of Philip Chambers in the register of Guisely, a neighbouring parish of Otley. There were three between 1771 and 1777 then a gap until 1785, with the latest baptism in 1800. Rather significantly, from 1793 onwards the father’s residence was given as Otley, his profession a cotton weaver. In particular he had a son Thomas baptised at Guisely 18.8.1793, who was said to have been born 7.7.1793 at Otley. This obviously fits the date range for our Thomas Chambers mentioned above, although it has to be admitted that at the Censuses Thomas always said he was a year or two years older than the register entry would imply, and his daughter also had him a year older when reporting his death.
We were also happy to associate the Guiseley/Otley children with a marriage at Guiseley 25.8.1784 between Philip Chambers and Grace Whaley. We have not established her parentage.
As is routine, we combed Guiseley and Otley for relevant burials and one son, William, born 21.3.1797 was buried at Guiseley later that year. After that there was nothing in the two parishes, so we widened the search to the whole of Yorkshire, looking particularly for a burial of Philip Chambers. Interestingly, we found one at – guess where – Hampsthwaite. This was 4.7.1804 for a 15 year old Philip who could clearly be the boy born at Guiseley 5.2.1789. Then crucially the burial 10.7.1828 of Philip Chambers aged 91 and, combing right through the Hampsthwaite records, Grace, buried 23.1.1823, aged 64. We tabulate below all the links between the Guiseley Otley family and early 19C Chambers entries at Hampsthwaite. It is quite clear that between 1800 and 1804 Philip Chambers and his family moved from Otley to Hampsthwaite.
The list is below with the relevant birth date in the Chambers Whaley family story being given in brackets:
Burial 4.7.1804 Philip Chambers, aged 15, of Waaken. (5.2.1789)
Marriage 14.8.1807 Margaret Chambers (19.2.1787) and Samuel Cooper, clothier of Guiseley. Witness: Thomas Chambers. [N.B.!]
Marriage 18.12.1812 Elizabeth Chambers (7.7.1791) and Francis Wade.
Marriage 22.2.1819 Ann Chambers (1.7.1798) and John Marston. Witness: Thomas Chambers. [N.B.]
Marriage 29.12.1822 Rebecca Chambers (9.1.1800) and John Habbishaw.
Burial 23.1.1823* Grace Chambers of Birstwith, aged 64
Burial 10.7.1828 Philip Chambers of Birstwith, aged 91.
(Birstwith is the next settlement upstream from Hampsthwaite.)
*Just 20 days after the double ceremony concerning Thomas Chambers!
An important fact emerges from the above, i.e. that Philip Chambers was born around 1737, so he was 45 when he married Grace and can logically taken to be the father of the first series of Guiseley baptisms, with a first marriage at Guiseley 7.1.1771 to Mercy Smith. Accordingly, Appendix 3 has all the details of Philip Chambers two families.
A possible snag
This seems to point very clearly to our family line going back through Philip and Grace Chambers. At least one other published researcher of the Chambers family agrees. HOWEVER, there seems to be a snag! Both the burial register and Bishop’s Transcript of burials at Guiseley have an entry dated 10.4.1794 for Thomas Chambers son of Philip of Otley (i.e. in identical terms to the previous year’s baptism) and if we follow standard practice we have to assume that little Thomas Chambers of 1793 died in infancy. Clearly the other researcher has disregarded (or overlooked) the 1794 burial entry but for some time we were not prepared to do this.
But coming back to it all again, we asked ouselves how else can we account for all the Chambers references at Hampsthwaite? After all, looking through lists of Guiseley baptisms 1780-1799 and the download of the Otley register entries we have to face up to the fact that Philip Chambers is the only Chambers parent we are aware of who was resident in Otley around the time that our Thomas must have been born. Also, by the early 1820s our Thomas was definitely living in Hampsthwaite where Philip and Grace had apparently taken the family (from Otley) Dare we ask if the 1794 Guiseley burial entry could simply be referring to the wrong father? At that time, William Chambers (of Philip’s first marriage), assuming he had survived, would have been 23 and might well have been burying a son named Thomas, so that the only error in the burial entry would be saying the Philip was the father, rather than the grandfather! However, we have no evidence to support this idea and we know that John Chambers of the first marriage (born 1777) only married at Guiseley in 1797.
As a respected fellow researcher pointed out, some parish clerks were not above writing up the registers later from rough notes made at the time. Indeed we have seen such a confession in at least one Yorkshire register. In the end we have decided that there was some kind of error and that Philip Chambers and Grace Whaley were Mike’s 3xgr-grandparents.
We have not been able to identify the parentage of either of Philip’s wives. There are two baptisms that would fit the age at death of Mercy Smith. Both are dated 27.7.1736. At Knottingley the father is Samuel Smith Junior and at Pontefract it is also Samuel. We have seen nothing suitable for Grace Whaley, her age at death implying a birth in 1758 or the very beginning 1759.
Chambers Barker family
As to the origins of Philip Chambers, when he died 10.7.1828 it was stated that he was 91. This implies a birth date 1736-37, or, if they meant he was in his 91st year, 1737-38. The only U.K. baptism for Philip Chambers around that era that we could find was at Keighley, which around 12 miles from Otley. This was 6.5.1739 as a son of Thomas Chambers. In fact, we found that, regardless of date, the indexes only ever had eight Keighley baptisms with Thomas Chambers named as the father and they occurred in two bunches, namely 1706 to 1715 and then 1733 to 1743. The second group fits very well with a marriage at Bradford 5.12.1732 involving Thomas Chambers and Jane Barker which appeared not to result in any Bradford baptisms. What is interesting about Jane Barker is that she could be the girl baptised at Knaresborough 1.12.1712 as the daughter of “Phis Barker Junior”, he (i.e. Philip) being descended from a long line of Philip Barkers of Knaresborough. Not only could this account for the introduction into the Chambers ancestry of the comparatively rare name of Philip, it also brings us, at Knaresborough, to within 8 miles of Hampsthwaite. This allows us to surmise that “our” Philip Chambers eventually headed there because that is the area where he had relatives*. At any rate, we think this Bradford marriage is part of our family history. See Ref M72 for the Barker family and Appendix 4 hereto for details of Thomas and Jane’s family.
*We are aware of two generations of John Chambers (1726-1799) and (1762-1801) at Hampsthwaite. Ann, the widow of the second mentioned, remarried in 1803 but died the next year, leaving a girl aged 10 and boy aged 7. If there was a family connection with our Philip Chamber & Co these events might have prompted a move to Hampsthwaite, to possibly give support or, even, to live in property they had inherited.
Thomas Chambers was buried at Keighley 13.8.1746 (age not stated), leaving Jane, aged 34, with William 12, Hannah 11, and Philip 7. Jane apparently did not re-marry, so we wonder how she got support – see below for a possible answer. She was buried at Keighley 23.9.1757, age not stated but actually 45.
Thomas Chambers’ origins
Going further back, we start from the position that our line goes back through Thomas Chambers who married at Bradford 5.12.1732. We searched back from 1711 for Yorkshire baptisms of a Thomas Chambers, bearing in mind the locations in the West and North Ridings that we had encountered. The one that stood out was 6.8.1703 for Thomas Chambers son of Edward Chambers baptised at Sutton on the Forest, the very place that our Thomas’s grandson went to find a bride around 1824. Edward Chambers was a Quaker married to Elizabeth with at least five children older than Thomas. To check that the 1703 baby survived to marrying age we looked at all the Thomas Chambers burials in Yorkshire 1703-1732. There were three but in each case there was a corresponding local baptism that could be linked to the burial, so we think that, on a reasonable speculation basis, our line goes back in time as Thomas son of Philip son of Thomas son of Edward, the Quaker. Admittedly the recurrence in the story of Sutton on the Forest was 68 years after Thomas’s death at Keighley but there is a link in that Philip Chambers was seven years old when his father died (August 1746) yet was still alive and on the spot when his son Thomas lost his first wife. We just wonder whether Philip and his two siblings were taken by their mother to their father’s birthplace Sutton on the Forest, where the children’s uncle John had similar aged children, as is mentioned in Appendices 5 and 6 hereto. If Philip Chambers spent some years at Sutton on the Forest it is highly likely that he would still have a link there in the 1820s.
The Quaker Chambers
Members of the Religious Society of Friends were dissenters, as far as the Church of England (i.e. the Establishment) were concerned and regarded as being in the far (i.e. lowest) end of the range. Their births, marriages and deaths are rarely mentioned in the Parish registers and as family historians we are reliant on lists of births and deaths recorded at the Society members’ monthly meetings, in our case at York and at Thirsk. We have not so far found any such record for marriages, although both parents’ first names are always given in the other cases. Thus we are sure that Edward Chambers was married to Elizabeth but we do not know her maiden name. It was the practice for a couple to make their vows at a Friends meeting and record would be made of this, with a list of those present, i.e. the witnesses. George Fox (1624-1691) who was very prominent in the formation of the Religious Society of Friends had this to say on marriage in 1669:
For the right joining in marriage is the work of the Lord only, and not the priests’ or the magistrates’. For it is God’s ordination and not man’s and therefore friends cannot consent that they should join them together: for we marry none; it is the Lord’s work, and we are witnesses.
Given that Edward and Elizabeth Chambers had a child born 22.11.1687, we can be sure that they would be acquainted with George Fox’s writings, even if they had not seen him on his travels round the country. We were interested to see that in the earliest days the area of the Thirsk meeting was contiguous with that of Knaresborough and there was another area based on Keighley.
January 2021
Appendix 1 to Ref M7
The Family of Thomas Chambers and Mary Pears
Thomas Chambers and Mary Pears got married at Sutton-on-the Forest, north of York 28.2.1825, when Thomas was said to be resident at Acaster Malbis. They had children as follows:
Mary Ann Baptised 14.5.1826 at Acaster Malbis, family said to be resident at Bishopthorpe. In 1841 at home at Bishopthorpe. In 1851 a nursemaid to the family of William Bradley Wainman, landed gentleman, at Stone Gappe, Skipton, North Yorkshire. Not seen after that.
Joseph Baptised 6.11.1827 at Bishopthorpe. Buried there 20.12.1827, 7 weeks old.
Robert Baptised 27.3.1830 at Bishopthorpe. In 1841 and 1851 at home at Bishopthorpe. Carpenter, married Emma Odell, a native of Shefford, Bedfordshire, in October 1856 at Biggleswade and at the 1861 Census the couple and their daughter 3 year-old Grace Mary Ann, were living with Emma’s sister Martha, married to Charles Breed, with their two small sons, in Lambeth and in 1871 they were in Battersea with six children. Other researchers have it that Emma died in 1891 and two years later Robert remarried, finally dying in 1902 in Wandsworth (aged 72).
Sarah Elizabeth Baptised at Bishopthorpe 26.6.1832, father a wheelright. In 1841 and 1851 at home at Bishopthorpe. Married George Turner 6.4.1856. See main text.
Thomas Born 13.5.1839 at Bishopthorpe and baptised there 20.7.1839, father a joiner. In 1841 and 1851 at home at Bishopthorpe. Married 1.3.1864 Mary Lunn. See Appendix 2.
Mary Chambers (nee Pears) died 15.6.1852 of heart disease at Bishopthorpe age 57 and was buried there 18.6.1852. Thomas Chambers died 3.1.1885 of old age at Stepney Street, Hull, said to be aged 92.
Appendix 2 to Ref M7
THOMAS CHAMBERS (JUNIOR) & FAMILY
Mike’s maternal great-grandmother, Sarah Elizabeth, nee Chambers, had a younger brother Thomas. He was born 13.5.1839 at Bishopthorpe and baptised there in 20.7.1839, being there with the family in 1851. By 1861, aged 21, he was at Thorngumby – West Cottngwith where he was the groom in the considerable household of the Rector. By this time, his sister, now Sarah Elizabeth Turner, had moved to Hull and this seems to have brought Thomas to the city somehow, because 1.3.1864 he married Mary Lunn at Drypool Parish Church, Hull, both parties being resident in that parish. It was the first marriage for both of them and Thomas gave his profession as a groom, while Mary Lunn was stated to be the daughter of Edward Lunn, a druggist. Sarah and George Turner were the witnesses. Thomas declared his father to be Thomas Chambers, wheelwright.
Mary Lunn was baptised at St Mary Bishophill Junior 21.6.1838, her birth noted as 31.5.1838. Father Edward is said to be a druggist of New York Street. In 1841 we see her, aged 3, at that address, with her parents Edward and Mary Lunn, with four older and one younger siblings. Edward Lunn and Mary Marsh had married 28.2.1829 at All Saints Pavement, York, he being a resident of Halifax. In 1851, aged 12 Mary Lunn was a lodger in York.
We found the birth of Thomas and Mary’s first child, i.e. Thomas Edward, 15.11.1864, at 10 Princess Street, Mason Street, East Sculcoates, Hull, the mother’s maiden name being given as Lumm (sic! – the facsimile handwriting seems quite clear) and Thomas’s occupation as domestic servant – groom. There was a further birth in Hull, i.e. Henry 2.1.1868, when Thomas was a “Stationer’s Porter” and the family was living in Albert Terrace, Pease Street, Hull. (This time the entry looks like Lunn!).
We naturally thought we would come across the family in the 1871 Census but Thomas was on his own as a boarder in some “refreshment rooms” in York, while six-year-old “Edward T. Chambers” was elsewhere in York with Ann Medforth, a cabinet-maker employing three men and three boys, said to be his cousin. Meanwhile, Henry, aged 3, was with his aunt Sarah in Hull. We do not know where mother Mary was in 1871 although we do know that she gave birth to Edith Elizabeth 13.3.1872 at Silver Street, Clifton, York (Thomas still being a groom).
By 1881 the family was living at 5, St Mary’s Lane, Marygate, York, with Thomas described as a cab driver, now with four children, including Eliza, aged 3, born in York.
Tragedy struck 30.6.1885 when the 17 year old Henry Chambers was accidentally killed. It may have been work-related because the informant in the Cemetery records was joiner working at Lady Peckitts Yard. Four and a half years later, 13.1.1890, Henry was joined in York Cemetery by his mother Mary, who died aged 50 from obstruction of the bowels.
The next year, at the Census of 1891, Thomas had with him just one child, the thirteen year old “Edith Constance” (i.e. the above Eliza!), aged 13, with Elizabeth Janet Hillier, a 57 year old widow, said to be born in York, as housekeeper, and described as his sister-in-law. She is no doubt the late Mary’s eldest sister – we have seen her on the 1841 Census in York. In 1901 and 1911 just the two old people were still at St Mary’s Lane and Elizabeth Tamar Hillier, as the later records have it, died there (of old age) 22.3.1914, being buried in the family plot. Thomas himself finally completed the quartet of burials there when he died 22.2.1922, aged 82 as a “labourer” resident in the workhouse.
August 2019
Appendix 3 to Ref M7
The Families of Philip Chambers
Philip Chambers married Mercy Smith at Guiseley, West Riding, 7.1.1771. We know of the following children, all born and baptised there:
William Baptised 2.6.1771.
Mally (Daughter) baptised 4.4.1774
John Born 29.4.1777, baptised 17.8.1777. Clothmaker. Married by licence at Otley 20.5.1797 Martha Emmott, aged 21. He of Otley and she of Guiseley.
Mercy Chambers was buried at Guiseley 6.4.1784, aged 47.
* * * * *
Philip Chambers married Grace Whaley at Guiseley 25.8.1784. They had children as follows:
Hannah Jane Born Guiseley 9.5.1785, baptised Guisely 12.6.1785.
Peggy Born Guiseley 19.2.1787, baptised Guiseley 13.6.1787. Married at Hampsthwaite 14.8.1807 Samuel Cooper, clothier of Guiseley, witnesses being Thomas Chambers and Ben Shepherd.
Philip Born Guiseley 5.2.1789, baptised Guiseley 1.6.1789. Buried at Hampsthwaite 4.7.1804 aged 15, said to be of Waaken.
Elizabeth Baptised Guiseley 7.7.1791. Married at Hampsthwaite 18.12.1812 Francis Wade of Kirby Malzead, witnesses John Toston & Ann Haxey.
Thomas Born Otley 7.7.1793, baptised Guiseley 18.8.1793. See main text.
Sarah Born Otley and baptised there 31.5.1795, her father described as “cotton weaver”. Possible marriage Knaresborough 5.3. 1821 to John Hudson (both of the parish).
William Born Otley 21.3.1797, baptised Guiseley 16.4.1797. Buried Guiseley 21.8.1797.
Ann Born Otley 1.7.1798, baptised Guiseley 6.9.1798. Married Hampsthwaite 22.2.1819 John Marston, both of the parish, witnesses Francis Wade and Thomas Chambers.
Rebecca Born Otley 9.1.1800, baptised Guiseley 9.2.1800. Married Hampsthwaite 29.12.1822 John Habbishaw both of the parish.
Grace Chambers was buried at Hampsthwaite 23.1.1823, aged 64, resident at Birstwith.
Philip Chambers was buried at Hampsthwaite 10.7.1828, aged 91, resident at Birstwith.
Appendix 4 to Ref M7
The Family of Thomas Chambers and Jane Barker
Thomas Chambers and Jane Barker married at Bradford 5.12.1732. They had children baptised at Keighley as Follows:
William 9.9.1733. Died 8.12.1779, buried at Keighley 11.12.1779, aged 47 as recorded.
Hannah 12.2.1735
Sarah 2.1.1736. Buried 5.3.1746, aged 10.
Philip 6.5.1739. Cotton weaver. Married as his second wife Grace Whaley at Guiseley 25.8.1784. See main text and Appendix 3.
Peggy 14.6.1743. Buried (as Elizabeth) 21.8.1746, aged 3.
Thomas Chambers was buried at Keighley 13.8.1746, aged 66 and Jane buried there 23.9.1757.
January 2021
Appendix 5 to Ref M7
The Family of Edward Chambers and Elizabeth
We do not know when the is Quaker couple married. We have seen births recorded at the monthly meetings of the Society of Friends at York as follows:
Elizabeth Born 22.11.1687
William Born at Sutton on the Forest 28.8.1694
John Born 30.6.1696. Weaver. Baptised as Anglican at Sutton on the Forest 21.9.1717, the minister commenting “Educated a as Quaker”. He married at Sutton on the Forest 23.5.1719, Ann Shields, a widow. They had one son and then Ann died, being buried at Sutton on the Forest 29.10.1722. He no doubt remarried as there were three more children baptised at Sutton on the Forest. Further details are at Appendix 6.
Margaret Born at Sutton on the Forest 4.12.1698. Died there 21.3.1720 and buried at Huby 24.3.1720. (Reported at Essex Meeting)
Edward Born at Thirsk but baptised at Sutton on the Forest 7.10.1700. He married a lady called Elizabeth but we have seen nothing more of them except that the York Quaker records have Elizabeth dying at Sutton on the Forest 27.10.1766 and buried two days later at Huby (in the Parish). Similarly the death of Edward, said the be a husbandman of Thirsk died 22.1.1779 at Thirsk and buried there four days later, said to be aged 79.
Thomas Baptised 1703 at Sutton on the Forest. Married at Bradford 5.12.1732 Jane Barker. See main text and Appendix 4.
We do not know where and when Edward and Elizabeth Chambers died.
January 2021
Appendix 6 to Ref M7
The Families of John Chambers
John Chambers, a weaver, married Ann Shields, a widow, at Sutton on the Forest 23.5.1719.
They had one child:
William Baptised at Sutton on the Forest 6.3.1720(NS) and buried there 22.8.1720.
Ann Chambers was buried at Sutton on the Forest 29.10.1722.
Presumably John Chambers remarried. We know of baptisms of his children at Sutton on the Forest as follows:
Mary 18.11.1724
Edward 28.3. 1732(NS)
John 10.3.1738
There was a burial at Sutton on the Forest 13.9.1776 of Frances Chambers, wife of John, aged 79. This implies a birth 1696/97 and allows for her to have been the mother of the youngest child above. Also, she was roughly the same age as her husband. We have not seen his burial anywhere.